There’s no getting away from Donald Trump. Journalist Nick Turse, reporting from South Sudan during the campaign, will tell you that. Out in the hinterlands, amid great violence, an African aid worker grilled him, hoping to make sense of the Republican nominee: “Is he going to win?” As the nightmare in South Sudan unfolded, the aid worker saw something just as terrifying on the horizon. “It can’t happen, can it?”

Donald Trump’s victory has created a lot of uncertainty — not just in the United States, but around the world. That an aid worker in South Sudan, surrounded by violence, fixated on the possibility of a Trump presidency is a testament to that fact.

To help make sense of this uncertainty, Eli Massey for Jacobin sat down with Turse, a managing editor at TomDispatch.com, investigative reporter, and the author of a number of books, including the recent Next Time They’ll Come to Count the Dead. We talked about Obama’s legacy, the significance of a Trump presidency, the South Sudanese conflict, and the importance of adversarial journalism.