I recently debated Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe, along with Tim Pool and Tulsi Gabbard, at the Beacon Theatre in New York. It was a strange experience, in large part because O’Keefe attempted one of his typical “ambush journalism” stunts backstage, minutes before he could have asked me any question he wanted in front of a Broadway theater full of people.

Once we were on stage, his demeanor changed. Where he’d been energetic and aggressive in the earlier encounter, during some parts of the debate itself he seemed to be saying the bare minimum. My guess is he prefers conversations where he controls the camera and the microphone.

I was happy with the debate, though, because I was able to focus much of the discussion on one of the main arguments I came to New York to make. James O’Keefe, like many right-wingers, talks a big game about free speech. But there’s no way to reconcile that rhetoric with his crusade against labor unions.