We’ve long heard about student debt, which now totals $1.8 trillion, or half a trillion more than all the credit card debt outstanding. What’s gotten less attention are the economic challenges that students face while in college, notably getting enough to eat and keeping a roof over their heads.

Sara Goldrick-Rab has been studying this topic for about twenty years. She’s a sociologist and founder of the Hope Center for College, Community, and Justice. The numbers she comes up with are disturbing. For example, one in four undergraduates and one in eight graduate students face food insecurity. That’s worth considering at a time when elite colleges attract so much media attention.

Doug Henwood recently interviewed Goldrick-Rab on his Jacobin Radio show Behind the News. Their conversation, which you can listen to here, has been edited for length and clarity.